Posts by Separation of Powers

28

Is everyone required to be enrolled in the theocratic ministry school?

by hoser in

jw
friends

can a publisher "drop out" and still be in good standing?.

Separation of Powers

No..unless you have physical or mental issues that can be verified by a team of medical professionals. The group of medical professionals must provide documentation that states unequivocally that you cannot participate in the TMS. They must also state if you are restricted from serving as the householder or if that would be permissible. If you simply choose to "opt out" then others will notice and you might be construed as having been dealt with judicially and for that reason not allowed to participate even if you wanted to when you obviously did not want to in the first place. LOL

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

OK, good points all. Let's see if I can address them quickly.

If the Garden of Eden myth is related to nation building, then there must be a key, something that helps us to unlock the fact that it is simply a myth with a baseline application. That key is found in the expression of Cain...yes, Cain, when he is confronted with the discipline of the Almighty. He states, "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me." If, as the myth implies, Adam and Eve and their immediate offspring are the ONLY ones on earth, then why would Cain worry about being killed? Surely, everyone on earth, if confined to just Adam and Eve and their family knew what Cain had done. Their offspring would know what Cain had done. Why then would God put a mark on him so that "no one who found him would kill him?" The answer is simple, they were NOT the only people living on the earth. Proof of that is the expression that Cain went out "to the LAND of Nod, to the east of Eden." That expression is noteworthy, as the expression implies habitaction, geographic boundaries.

So...that is the key, the rest is relatively easy.

Tree of Knowledge, reason why nation NOT in blessed condition and have to put up with all the gentiles.

Tree of Life, the objective, the blessing that if they conform to God's commands, i.e the laws of the nation, then they will again be in a blessed state.

Garden of Eden, the objective, the reward for conformance to the nation

Sin because of Eve, the manner in which the patriarchal, male dominated society founded itself.

It is all pretty easily understood from that point on......

Just some thoughts,

SOP

20

How I miss the 'Truth' of my youth....

by gingerbread in

jw
friends

my family moved from the city to the country.. part of the reason for the relocation was to move 'to where the need was greater'.

i loved our new home - i was free to roam the woods and fields, enjoy the wildlife, work in our garden and feed the chickens.

i had new friends in our new congregation.

Separation of Powers

Ginger,

I concur...things are simply not the same. I knew things were different when "gatherings" were discouraged starting in the '80's. Then, more and more comments were made related to how "some" in the congregation "may not be good association" and "just because someone is here at the hall, doesn't mean they are good association" started a maelstrom of suspicion that could never be rectified. I saw it happening before my eyes...the marginalization of dozens of young people who, although on the fringe, still felt like they were part of the congregation. Now, they simply check out.

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

EdenOne,

Interesting analysis of the text. I have to say that the story of the Garden of Eden is probably one of the most interpreted stories in the Bible. You made mention of the idea that God would have ultimately allowed Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, yet you made no mention (that I can recall) of the Tree of Life. The fact that two distinct trees are mentioned in the myth is important. The fact that one is accessible and the other outside the limits or boundaries of man is also very important. The tree of knowledge or "wisdom" as you mention, is simply a means to an end, an explanation, a cause....the effect, sin. There is, in my opinion, no other purpose for the tree.

I have commented several times before that the story of the Garden of Eden, in fact the entire pre-Mosaic portion of Genesis, simply serves the purpose of distinguishing the Jew or Israelite from other peoples. It is akin to the legends built around any nation-state. The U.S. history books are replete with the notion of legends. The Paul Revere story, the George Washington and cherry tree story, the Benedict Arnold story. They all serve a purpose in identifying what became the nation. If you read the book of Genesis from that perspective, you will find less mysticism and more political propaganda.

SOP

55

Letting go of Highly Qualified Men

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

i have been posting for a few months now and have read the life stories of tech49, confusedandalone, winston smith and other brothers who have held prominent positions in the organization who were dismissed not for any gross sins, but mainly for not keeping their child toeing the line.

they have been "cast aside", nit picked to death, and made to feel unworthy for their years of dedicated service.

even in my case, having my best friends treat me like the plague to jockey for position of recogntion.. is this what the organization is resorting to now?

Separation of Powers

I have found that most "highly qualified men" can remain in their positions as long as they have the support of the elder body they serve with. I recall a CO that traveled through a congregation I was in and he apparently decided that one of the elders simply did not qualify because his oldest kid, an adult, had rejected the "truth." I don't believe he knew the circumstances. It appeared that he simply wanted him out. He apparently wrote his letter along with his report and the elder body reportedly wrote one to rebut his position. He remained an elder.

I would imagine that if there was a finger pointer among the group, the elder would have been deleted. But, we all saw the wisdom of the "cast the first stone" portion of the Bible.

SOP

26

Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?

by ThomasCovenant in

believers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.

that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.

i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.

Separation of Powers

It depends on what your definition of "respect" is. If you mean respect in the sense of "tolerate" than yes, we should all be tolerant. If you mean respect in the classic sense, aka admiration, than you might be harder pressed. I have always "admired" people with other beliefs, particularly if they were "true believers" with regard to what their belief system required. In this day and age, it is difficult for anyone to adhere to any set of standards. So, I guess I "respect" those type of believers. Otherwise, I just tolerate them.

SOP

55

Marriage In The New World

by Cold Steel in

okay, here's the issue.

some people, even some jws, believe that in the new world they will be reunited with their spouses.

jesus, however, said that in the resurrection there would be no marriage or giving in marriage.

Separation of Powers

The story of Adam and Eve has nothing to do with marriage per se. It is a story about the beginning of a nation...Israel. So, God chooses a guy, Adam. Gives him a wife that he must regard as part of him, aka "the nation." They must work together to establish their landrights, aka "garden of Eden." Then, they must fill that land with their offspring, aka "little Israelites." It is part of the narrative in establishing a 'divine right" of "manifest destiny" similar to what every nation has done before and since the Jewish nation.

SOP

187

The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.

by Stand for Pure Worship in

jw
friends

an average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.

on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?

not exactly working out for you guys.

Separation of Powers

Every one of those items that you list SFPW is what some believe to be evidence of a well run publishing empire with a non paid work force that is trained to overcome objections and capitalize on the suffering of others so that they will conform when at their lowest human condition.

Ask yourself, "What evidence is there that they truly follow the 1st century christian model?"

I like the comment made in the movie Angels and Demons, "My church FEEDS the hungry, COMFORTS the SICK and DYING. What does YOUR Church do?"

Well, WHAT DOES IT DO?

SOP

66

New 1975? Jan 1st WT 2014

by notsurewheretogo in

this post was taken from reddit exjw but makes a very good point:.

these are two paragraphs of the watchtower of january 1st 2014.... .

i don't know about you guys, but in my mind, i'm seeing a deja vu of the articles before 1975 i've read.

Separation of Powers

@ Data Dog

I would have to say YES...they do believe this. After all, to say anything less would be to admit that they have wasted their lives affiliated with an organization that is NOT God's chosen channel. It would be to admit that they are not the elite as Rutherford once called them. They are all in...at least publicly.

I think about how difficult it is when one begins to wake up to the reality of this organization. Where once the explanations were clear and accepted as coming from an "elect" source. Now, one reads between the lines. For most, that only happens when you begin to pull away. It is kind of a surreal experience like floating above a forest to see where the smoke that had blinded your campsite originates. When you can see from afar, the topography of the organization is full of valleys and chasms with no paradise in sight.

It is my belief, that for those at the top, they have set up their tent in the middle of the forest. It is THEIR fires that are burning, so much so, that their own vision is obscured by the smoke they have created.

Just a thought,

SOP

66

New 1975? Jan 1st WT 2014

by notsurewheretogo in

this post was taken from reddit exjw but makes a very good point:.

these are two paragraphs of the watchtower of january 1st 2014.... .

i don't know about you guys, but in my mind, i'm seeing a deja vu of the articles before 1975 i've read.

Separation of Powers

I agree that this article has been fabricated in an attempt to generate urgency. Having lived through the 1975 debacle, much of the same sword rattling was used back then. Some ask, "didn't they learn anything?" My answer, " Yes they did." It is my opinion that they learned that although close to 250K left after 1975 had come and passed ( as demonstrated in the 1977 yearbook figures I believe), many of those new converts stayed. They had been assimilated into the fold and many chose not to return to their previous lives or circumstances. Their commitment was later solidified by the "purge" from bethel later that decade and into the early 80's which moved many to reexamine their loyalty to the organization and the cause.

Many of those for whom this urgency building is intended have no recollection of 1975 nor the urgency that existed prior to its arrival. It is my opinion that they choose to either dismiss it as unimportant or categorically reject it as untrue rebellious ramblings of the disgruntled who chose to believe the "suggestion" that the end "might" come in 1975.

I expect that many will jump on board with this new idea and its accompanying urgency. They will build up the expectation in their minds like a child whose father tells them that if he's good he will take him to the amusement park. And so, another wild ride begins. Buckle your safety restraints and keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times! Enjoy your ride!

SOP